Wednesday, November 09, 2005

BoO in Ottawa

Our local sports talk station has their own little battle on the morning show - and it's moved onto the blogs of morning hosts Steve Warne (Sens) and Buzz (Leafs).

Buzz keeps his head down most of the time and of course, like all Leaf fans around here, had to deal with the Halloween debacle:
Lets face it, even if you’re a ‘Leaf fan, we have known that the Sens are a better team on paper. Their offence is one of the best in the league. But, ‘Leaf fans also knew their team could beat them in the alley. That came to an end on Saturday night at 2:27 of the second period. Brian McGratton’s KO of Maple Leafs tough guy Tie Domi. The fight left Domi with a broken nose. Game. Set. Match.The final score - Sens 8, the Maple Leafs 0. That one punch has quickly changed the history of hockey’s best feud. Advantage – Ottawa . Enjoy it Sens fans.

28 comments:

  1. Toughness is not about having goons and fighting. The Leafs would love nothing more than see McGratton play 10+ minutes a game in order to make the Sens 'tough' because McGratton isn't a very good hockey player. Toughness is about hitting and banging and making the opposing players worried about who is going to smash them as they head into the corner to grab a puck. McGratton can't impose that fear on the Leafs if he is sitting on the bench as he so often does.

    The Sens still don't have a Tucker or Domi or Lindros who can both bang and play. Even Antropov, Allison and Ponikarovsky will bang from time to time and they are pretty big guys too.

    I know you Sens fans are going to talk about Neil but he is somewhat of a reluctant physical player. He'll do it but it seems that more often than not he'd really prefer not to. Chara is the only guy who I would say is physically intimidating although Volchenkov will throw the odd big hit too.

    But hey, I don't mean to rain on your McGratton is out saviour parade. Enjoy it until playoff time when he can be found sitting on the bench.

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  2. You clearly havent watched a sens game ever??? If you want physical players that both hit and play, look at mike fisher, look at anton volchenkov, look at zdeno chara or Chris Neil - and also NOBODY is afraid of tucker - hes a little whining-diving-pussy (in perspective of course)

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  3. Ficher is the shit... and I'm a Leafs fan.

    He can crash and bang, and he can put the puck in the net. He even scraps the odd time and does a good job when he has to.

    I think all 30 teams in the NHL would want a guy like Tucker in their lineup. Much like Ficher he can pretty much do it all...
    However, I don't see Ficher putting up 60 points (in the old NHL) which is what Tucker has done in the past.

    He puts his body on the line every game... How in the world do you call him a pussy?

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  4. Volchenkov will throw the odd hit? He's good for four hits a game and has to be among the league leaders in that statistic.

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  5. Volchenkov has 23 hits (70th in the NHL, 3rd on Sens) which is just under 2 per game which isn't bad but certainly not four hits per game. I also said odd *big* hit, not odd hit.

    For Toronto Tucker has 34 hits, McCabe has 31, Klee 28, Belak 27, Kilger 27, Allison 25, Domi 24, Lindros 23, Berg 19, Ponikarovsky 19, Steen 19 and Wilm 17.

    For Ottawa Chara has 44, Neil has 29, Volchenkov 23, Phillips 20, Meszaros 19, Fisher 14. Yup, just 14 for Fisher. The other problem for Fisher is he has a hard time staying healthy. Maybe that is why he is not hitting so much this year. Who knows.

    As for Tucker, he has never had 60 points but he might this year. He did reach 59 points one year though so he almost made 60.

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  6. Tucker takes more dives than Depatie. He dishes them out but can't take 'em.
    I remeber seeing him lie flat on the ice after a not so big hit this year. Of course a minute later he's laughing on the bench and ready to go. Yeah, Pussy.

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  7. A real pussy would kick someone in the groin with their skate...

    Know anyone who's done that?

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  8. I rounded up to 60... It sounded better!

    475th in the NHL in hits, 372nd in the league in +/-, 186th in the league in average ice time in the first period...

    Statistics are good for people who don't really watch the game.

    Anyone who really watches can tell you that a guy like Tucker is better than his statistics show... In different ways.

    How many points did Corson have in the the playoff sweep over the senators?
    How many blocked shots?
    How many times did he stop Yashin from scoring?

    Keep the statistics in perspective!

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  9. How many points did Corson have in the the playoff sweep over the senators?
    How many blocked shots?
    How many times did he stop Yashin from scoring?


    How many times will Leaf fans use the playoffs from the past in which they didnt win the cup as an attempt to gain leverage in an argument?

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  10. Ottawa doesn't have a lot of hits, but that's likely because they are tired after scoring eight goals. It takes a lot out of you!

    The Sens don't need to be tough if they are winning games by 5-6 goals. They haven't been laying the body this year because they don't have to. If you are in a game where you are up 5-1, why would you hammer someone in the corner? That could spark the team and give them some momentum...which could quickly turn that 5-1 lead into a 5-5 tie. The Leafs, on the other hand, have been in some tight games where they needed to bang and crash to generate chances. You do the math.

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  11. How many times will Leaf fans use the playoffs from the past in which they didnt win the cup as an attempt to gain leverage in an argument?

    I'm sorry... did I hit a nerve with that one?

    I was simply saying that statistics don't always clearly show a players value to a team!

    Check the comments I've made in this thread... All I've said is that guys like Ficher/Tucker are more valuable to their teams than their statistics may show. That and the fact that Havlat, while extremely talented, is actually the biggest pussy in the league...
    Who the fuck kicks anyways? Twice!
    What a fuckin weasel.

    I'll try to be a little more sensitive to your feelings next time I try to prove a point.

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  12. If you are in a game where you are up 5-1, why would you hammer someone in the corner? That could spark the team and give them some momentum...which could quickly turn that 5-1 lead into a 5-5 tie.


    You can't be serious?

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  13. You know, you keep spewing out all these stats and crap, but your team's not doing it, PERIOD!!! The Leafs aren't pulling all their so called "talent" together and winning the way the Sens are. We've got the goal scorers, who are scoring, and it's the goals that win the game! Go ahead, I'll be waiting for the attack...

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  14. Can you read?

    When did I say anything about the Leafs being better than the Sens at scoring goals this year?

    NOTE!!!! I was talking about the type of player(s) Ficher/Tucker are and what they bring to the table for their respective teams.

    Do you think I give a flying fuck that the Sens are 6 or 8 or 15 points ahead of the Leafs in the standings? NO. I'll watch and cheer for my team regardless of how the Sens are doing. Until playoff time comes I could care less how the Sens do. They've been one of the better regular season teams over the past five years anyway so there isn;t much new in that respect.
    They've got a great team and have been playing great so far this year! NO arguement there!

    Pay attention to the thread!

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  15. Anyone who really watches can tell you that a guy like Tucker is better than his statistics show... In different ways.

    I agree, but since you were comparing him to Fisher and that Tucker was better because he can score 60 points I thought it was worth correcting.

    Statistics are good for people who don't really watch the game.

    Yes, but not just for those people. I watch a ton of hockey and I formulate a lot of my opinions through watching that hockey. But opinions can be biased or used in a misleading fashion. Raw stats don't lie and that is the beauty of them. But yes, stats don't always tell the whole story but the part of the story they tell is accurate.

    You know, you keep spewing out all these stats and crap, but your team's not doing it, PERIOD!!!

    The topic of this post is not about whether the Sens have more wins than the Leafs (which won-loss stats will tell us) but whether Ottawa is now a tough team now that they have a big goon sitting on their bench. In the past the tougher, more gritty Leafs would wear down the Sens in a seven game series. I think the question of whether they can still do that is still one worth pondering.

    And yes, Havlat is awfully talented but he's got no balls and that is why he was trying to get Hal Gills.

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  16. Volchenkov has 23 hits (70th in the NHL, 3rd on Sens) which is just under 2 per game which isn't bad but certainly not four hits per game.

    23 hits in 11 games = less than 2 per game?

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  17. Just under or just over it doesn't matter. It's still not four.

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  18. OK is there any point of commenting here? You sens fans are just a little bit to stupid and biased.

    Take a look outside of Senators world and you'll see that you're neck and neck with Montreal, and not all that far ahead in the standings from most teams.

    The Sens have a amazing team and can do a lot of damage, WOOHOO! As five-o said, nothing new. Get over the my dick is bigger than your crap and talk like people that actually understand hockey.

    If you think the Sens are gods gift to hockey take a look at the Oilers of the early 80's and the Penguins of the Early 90's, those were hockey teams.

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  19. I'll try to be a little more sensitive to your feelings next time I try to prove a point.


    Its not about being sensitive to my feelings, it's about Leafs keeping so much pride in... Not winning the cup? YOu can put the Sens out of the playoffs all you want - but in the playoffs its all or nothing. Being out in the first round, and being out in the second - its all the same, you didnt get the job done in the end.
    Also, remember, the Sens are a changed team, and the past is just that. And lastly atleast if your gonna praise Mike Fisher, spell his name right.

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  20. Baby want his bottle?

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  21. Don't get your panties in a bunch, five! Think you're pissed off at the world cause the Leafs can't cut it, no matter what stats you run through. Think you need a bottle to soothe that angry pout.

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  22. anonymous, take a look at your own spelling mistakes, don't be such an idiot and criticize people spelling mistakes if their a bit off. Especially in spelling someones name. It's not always that easy, try and spell Zarley Zalapski.

    Also why don't you have the guts to put a name up instead of anonymous? Got something to hide?

    You're all just a bunch of whiny babies that can't take a little bit of criticism and competition. The leafs are better in some areas of their game and the Sens are better in others. Go ahead and debate which ones are which and give all the other shit up.

    PS the Sens haven't won a cup in a long time either so that point doesn't carry much validity.

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  23. I think people can take criticism just fine. The problem is, how much it isn't based in:
    - jealousy
    - the rivalry
    - other nonsense

    With the exception of Dave Johnson, I don't think any of the Leafs fans I see comment here on a regular basis are writing from anything but a Leafs' fan perspective. Which is fine. Go nuts. But that's hardly a position of objectivity.

    Plus, all the "Sens fans r gay!!!!~~~!" stuff is pretty tired, because most of the time, it doesn't seem like it's even done in good fun, but rather just ridiculous poking and prodding.

    And no, this isn't because I'm sensitive, but rather because I'd like you can have hockey dialogue without acting like fifth graders. Unless you're actually in fifth grade, in which case, feel free to continue to act juvenile.

    Blanket statements like "Sens fans r 2 dumb 2 no better come talk to reel fanz" doesn't help, but hey, if playing tough guy on the Internet gets you off, go nuts.

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  24. take a look at your own spelling mistakes

    i looked - in that last post, didn't see any, and FISHER isnt exactly the hardest word to spell. I was taking criticism quite well, i made a counter point, and instead of bringing up another hockey fact as argument, you call me a whiny baby. And i know the sens havent won the cup in a long time, do you not think im dissapointed with that? Find one post from either "Graham" or anonymous, where ive praised my team for getting to the second round and getting put out.

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  25. Before this becomes a spelling war, let me reiterate the main points
    a) The blurb about the broken nose is dumb. But it does show that the SEns tough guy is tougher than the leafs tough guy. That doesn't mean anything to the grittiness of the team.

    b) There is no way you can compare the Sens and Leafs as equal teams at this point. If you can't acknolwedge that the Sens are the best team in the NHL right now, you are in serious denial.

    c) Hits don't really tell you anything positive. What does a hit tell you? Was it bone crushing? Did it cause a turnover? Did it cause a defensive lapse? Of course the leafs have lots of hits because they have head hunters like Lindros going around looking for them instead of trying to score goals... and surprise the team has a poor +/-. Maybe they should focus on scoring goals instead?

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  26. b) There is no way you can compare the Sens and Leafs as equal teams at this point. If you can't acknolwedge that the Sens are the best team in the NHL right now, you are in serious denial.

    I don't know about that. There are a handful of teams that could lay claim to that spot. I'd put Ottawa ahead of the others, but I have a bias and I've seen them play way more than I have all the others except Montreal.

    But I don't think, at this point, any sane person could make the argument that the Leafs are in that class. Of course, as every Buds fan correctly notes, it's still early.

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  27. Speaking Of comparing stats - this is what living on res at university does to you, you become a stats freak. (these stats not including tonights game vs boston)

    Toronto has 1.24 hits per game per player

    Ottawa has 1.03 in the same

    Toronto has 0.768 blocked shots per game per player

    Ottawa has 0.679

    Toronto has 0.569 giveaways per player per game

    Ottawa has 0.478

    Toronto has 0.33 Takeaways per player per game

    Ottawa has 0.457

    Both teams are 50.9% in face offs. Toronto Allows 32.125 shots per game
    Ottawa allows 29.92

    Assuming Shots were not blocked, Toronto would have allowed 46.625 shots per game and Ottawa would have allowed 42.15.

    Based on how long each goal tender has played, and based on their save %'s, Toronto would have allowed 24 more goals, while ottawa would have surrendered 11 more. THats all for the night

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  28. Duff Wormburner11/11/2005 6:41 AM

    God I love this blog......Go Sens Go..Leafs suck...nanananananananaheyheyheygoodbye....did I spell that rite?

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